When first I started skiing the skiing vs snowboarding argument wasn’t around yet. I was three, and started racing by the time I was twelve. I loved it, but after I strapped on a snowboard for the first time when I was 13, I didn’t put on a pair of skis for the next 20 years.
I love both skiing and snowboarding. During my many years riding in the Northwest, mainly British Columbia, Alberta, and Montana, I never had any problems with others because of my choice of ride.
When I moved to Utah and started riding there, in Colorado, and California, everything changed. I started getting a lot of attitude from skiers (not all of them of course, but more than ever before). I was randomly insulted for no reason and often subject to the assumption that I couldn’t ride anything technical and all I could do was slide around in the park and hit jumps.
I don’t want to sound like I think I’m an amazing snowboarder. I’m not. But I had a season’s pass every year since I could fit into ski boots, and that kind of experience goes a long way. And it feels pretty great when I red passed those same big-talking weekend-warrior skiers in a mogul field or drop without hesitation into a chute while they stand at the mustering their courage.
As a writer and photographer, I’ve ridden with a fair number of pros. I’ve rarely — if ever — heard this skiing vs. snowboarding snobbery from them. I think it’s because they’ve reached a high level of performance and don’t feel that they have anything to prove. They simply see their fellow snow rides as athletes with a passion for flying down mountains at insane velocities.
There’s a kinship in that.
It seems to me that the people who do take part in this argument feel like they have something to prove and, I suppose if they could prove it on the mountain, they wouldn’t feel the need to do it in the gondola and apres bar.
But, that’s just a guess.
Speculation aside, I’d like to make a couple of things clear.
- I think this is a ridiculous argument.
- I don’t care what anybody riders. I’m cool with anybody who likes to spend a day on the mountain (snowjock douchebags excepted).
- Having spent so much of my life oblivious to this argument, and then suddenly encountering it so harshly, has made me curious about it. This article is an attempt to articulate my thoughts about it, and to learn what other think.
Please let me know your opinion in the comments.
With that in mind, lets start with a simple poll.
Skiing vs Snowboarding: Click the Pic to Vote
Now, let’s start with the biggest examples of snowboarder-hate.
Three ski resorts in the United States ban snowboarders. Some snowboarders take that personally.
I don’t.
Two of those resorts, Alta and Deer Valley, are right in my backyard. Last year I even went skiing at Alta.
I skied from the time I was three until I was fourteen. I raced. I rode big mountain terrain. I was really good. I can count on one hand the number of times I came across a rideable slope that I was too timid to tackle.
Then, in my teens, I switched to snowboarding and never looked back. I enjoyed it more. I later became certified to teach snowboarding and now write the About.com Snowboarding Guide.
So, I’m fairly well-experienced in both sports.
I don’t care that some ski resorts choose to ban snowboarders. I’m not a fan of exclusionary business practices, but, if those ski hills could capitalize on the feelings of camaraderie, nostalgia, and sense purity that exists among long-time skiers, then more power to ‘em. There’s more than enough other terrain out there for me.
There is something that does upset me though.
Some skiers are very biased against snowboarders.
If you don’t believe me, watch this video, taken by snowboarders petitioning to be allowed on Alta.
Last year during my Best in the West Ski and Snowboard Tour I was often guided around ski areas by former (and current) competitive skiers. Most of the time my hosts were gracious and thought nothing of the plank strapped to my feet. We only needed to ride for a few minutes together before they realized that I could go basically anywhere that they could.
Some of my guides, however, weren’t so open-minded. They’d sneer when they saw that the journalist they were asked to show around had one board, rather than two, strapped to his feet. They’d condescendingly say things like, “That’s a great spot, but we don’t want to go there. The traverse is too long.” or “No, we can’t go there. There are too many moguls.”
I found myself having to defend my choice of ride. These skiers wrongly assumed that I couldn’t traverse, that I couldn’t carve properly, and that I’d scrape all the snow off of the runs.
I had to assure these skiers that I would traverse anywhere they wanted to, that I could hold an edge across an icy slope, that I could keep up with them on a cat track, and that they could indeed hop off of the chair and just start skiing right away, because I would be able to catch up after stopping for five seconds to strap in my rear foot.
By the end of our time together most of these skiers would say things like, “I’ve never ridden with a snowboarder like you,” or “You’re not like other snowboarders. You can actually ride.”
There are a lot of snowboarders, like me, who can navigate a mountain just as easily as a skier.
We can go pretty much anywhere and do pretty much anything that a skier can do just as easily as a skier.
I’ll admit, in some situations I have to put in more effort to keep up on traverses and cat tracks.
I can, however, keep up just fine and I don’t mind the work.
It aggravates me when skiers condescendingly assume that my ability to maneuver on the mountain is somehow hindered by the board on my feet.
There are differences between skiing and snowboarding. Many peoples ideas about what the real differences are, however, are ridiculous and insulting.
I’ve put a lot of thought into this. As both a skier and snowboarder I’m in a unique position to tackle this issue. So, on this post I’m going to address the differences between skiing and snowboarding once and for all.
I’m going to tell you what the real differences are, show you that they are in fact really quite small, and then frankly put to bed a lot of the bullshit stereotypes about snowboarders.
The root of the problem is that cultural differences between skiers and snowboarders have been overblown and that most snowboarders are stained with an image that comes from a very small — but extremely visible — minority of snowboarders.
The Real Differences Between Skiing Vs. Snowboarding
There are three types of differences between skiing and snowboarding: technical, emotional, and cultural.
Technical differences are the things that are made possible, impossible, easy, and difficult, by the nature of the technology. For example, a skier can (theoretically) carve a shaper turn than a snowboarder because he has two edges in the snow rather than one. Emotional differences have to do with the way the ride feels; the smoothness, flow, and enjoyment. Then we have cultural differences, which is the source of most of the bad blood between skiers and riders.
Below, I will talk about all three.
Technical Ability
There are two important technical differences between skiing and snowboarding: the number of edges in the snow and the ability to move your legs as a biped.
I will say this now. Skiers, please try to contain your delight.
Skis are more technically functional than snowboards.
It’s true. With skis you have four edges on the snow. You can turn more sharply. You can skate and push yourself with poles.
Skiers are often quick to point these things out.
I would also like to point out, however, that in 99.9% of circumstances, a snowboarder can overcome the technical differences between the two using effort and skill.
Some skiers assume that snowboarders are unable to follow long traverses. In most cases this is not true. It all depends on the ability of the snowboarder.
Having done a great deal of research last winter, I can tell you from experience that skiers are generally sloppy and lazy traversers.
They rightly should be. It’s easy to traverse on skis, so there is no reason to be attentive. So, most skiers cruise along mindlessly, unconcerned about carrying momentum because if they lose speed they can simply push with a pole.
A good snowboarder, on the other hand, is a master of maximizing momentum. He chooses his path carefully and pumps the grooves and bumps in the trail for speed. If he loses his speed he always has the option of frog-hopping a few steps up the hill so that the can ride down to the trail to build more speed.
This is sufficient to reach 99.9 percent of in-bounds terrain in most ski areas. If a snowboarder wants to tackle that last .01 percent, that snowboarder would need a splitboard.
So, although skis are technically more proficient, a good snowboarder can access effectively all of the same in-bounds terrain as skiers if they’re skilled and willing to put in a bit of extra effort.
The same holds true when it comes to flats. Unstrapping and pushing a snowboard is not fun, but, given the way that most ski hills are built (to prevent skiers from having to skate) a good snowboarder can unstrap and keep up to a skier of comparable ability most of the time
In all but the most extreme cases, snowboards are able to achieve the same results as skis. It is true that the snowboarder may have to put in some extra physical effort — but there is a payoff for that, which is what I’m going to discuss next.
Feeling and Enjoyment
This is highly subjective and there’s no right answer for everyone — so I won’t dwell on it too long — but this is the main reason that I prefer snowboarding to skiing.
The qualities that make snowboards less technically functional than skis — the lack of biped motion and extra edges — are the same qualities that make snowboarding feel so damned good.
Snowboarding feels smoother than skiing does.
Yes, a skier’s four edges have an advantage in technically challenging situations. However, when it comes to those glorious times — the ones that make you want to get up at six in the morning and drive to the hill — those times that you’re ploughing through snorkel-deep powder, screaming over beautifully-groomed corduroy, or plummeting down a sudden drop-off with your stomach in your mouth — managing two edges feels more fluid, natural, and enjoyable than managing four.
I’ve heard even the most hardcore skiers admit the appeal of a big fat snowboard on a powder day. The enjoyment of a rider sluffing floaty s-turns down a steep pitch of untouched pow is obvious.
So, although, skis are more technically proficient, snowboarding offers a better experience.
The difference is slight — the experiential advantage of snowboarding is about as big as the technical advantage of skiing — but it is worth mentioning.
It’s the reason that I choose to snowboard.
Cultural Characteristics
This is where things get hairy.
Before I start talking about the cultural differences between skiers and snowboarders — which basically means talking about stereotypes — I have to point out that I hate stereotypes and believe that every person deserves to be judged on their individual character.
The stereotypes I’m talking about are not my own personal beliefs, but views that I’ve noticed that others tend to hold; views which are at the root of much of the conflict between skiers and snowboarders.
The Bad Snowboarder Stereotype
The most extreme stereotype of snowboarders is one of punk skateboarders who figured out how to ride on snow and enjoy ruining the on-mountain experience for everyone else. This stereotype asserts that snowboarders are disrespectful, technically sloppy, aggressive, and unaware of others on the hill.
There are plenty snowboarders that fit this stereotype. I’ve met them and you’ve met them. (Then again, there are some skiers that fit it too.) They are, however, an overwhelming minority. The vast majority of snowboarders I know are kind and respectful.
A lot of the qualities reflected in this stereotype arise from a focus on a very small, but highly-visible, part of the snowboarding community.
Bullshit Snowboarder Stereotypes
A lot of the stereotypes about snowboarders arise from a small group of very visible snowboarders: park riders.
Park riders are the most visible snowboarders on the mountain. They spend their time on the busiest runs near the busiest lifts, so they are the snowboarders the average encounters most often.
Park snowboarders, however, probably make up less than half of the snowboarding community. The rest of us are off cruising down groomed runs or searching for pow.
It often happens in subcultures that a small minority of aggressive loudmouths get all of the attention from parents and the press. This is true of snowboarding.
There are lots of super douchebag snowboarders out there. They cut you off on the hill, nearly run you over, ride way too fast in slow areas, and flip the bird to anyone who gets in their way.
But there are lots of super douchebag skiers for that matter. And soccer players. And bakers and doctors and policemen.
Douchebaggery is not limited to snowboarding.
The snowboarding community includes a proportion of douchebags approximately equal to that of any other social group. For the sake of statistics, let’s say that that one out of ten people in the general population are douchebags.
So, if park riders make up, say, 40 percent of snowboarders, and 10 percent of those are super douchebags, we have a situation where all snowboarders are being judged based on the actions of around four percent of douchebag park riders, who come into contact with a very large number of people on the hill because they spend their time in the busiest places.
The following snowboarder stereotypes are based on this tiny minority of douchbag park riders and are dead wrong:
Bullshit Stereotype #1: Snowboarders Can’t Carve
A lot of skiers feel that snowboarders are technically crappy at turning and stopping, making them a danger to others around them.
There is a sliver of truth to this argument (two edges can turn and stop better than one) but it has been blown way out of proportion.
Snowboarders (and skiers) who hang out in the terrain park ride gear that’s customized for aerial maneuvers and rails. Their boards (or skis) are shorter for spinning, and their edges are dulled so that they won’t catch on rails.
Short boards (or skis) with dull edges are not able to turn sharply.
So, yes, some very visible douchebag snowboarders (and skiers) ride equipment that is not technically capable of making sharp turns. They do it at high speeds in crowded areas, and I’m sorry about that.
But that doesn’t mean that we all do it.
Bullshit Stereotype #2: Snowboarders Scrape the Powder Off the Mountain
This stereotype is based on an understandable misperception.
People see novice snowboarders sideslipping on the hill where novice skiers are snowplowing. So, on beginner (and some intermediate) terrain you’ll often see snowboarders sideslipping while skiers do not, because they have the option of snowplowing.
This creates the perception that snowboarders sideslip more than skiers.
When you get into the steeps, however, this ceases to be true. In the steeps, snowboarders and skiers both sideslip equally and for the same reason.
Sideslipping is for people who are riding terrain beyond their ability.
If a snowboarder sideslips down a slope, she will scrape away most of the powder on it.
If a skier sideslips down a slope, he will also scrape away most of the powder on it.
If a skier or snowboarder carves down the same slope, they will both displace approximately the same amount of pow.
The truth is that when you take either a skier or snowboarder down a pitch that they can’t handle, they will sideslip the snow off of it equally well.
Bullshit Stereotype #3: Snowboarders Ruin Moguls
This is basically the same as the above complaint. A good snowboarder will weave between moguls in the same way as a good skier.
A bad snowboarder will ride over them, in the same way that a bad skier will.
Bullshit Stereotype #4: Most Snowboarders Are Aggressive Teenagers
Snowboarding has been around since the mid 1960s. This means that the 5.1 million snowboarders on the mountain range from young children to senior citizens.
My father, at 68, loves snowboarding. A study by the Leisure Trends Group in 2004, found that 1.1 million snowboarders were over the age of 35.
We are not all young punks. I’m thirty-five and have a job, a salary…you know, a normal life.
Bullshit Stereotype #5: Learning to Snowboard is Easy
“It took me two days to become an intermediate snowboarder,” Chris G., a writer for Yahoo Voices, said, “By the end of the second day I could take the board down any intermediate run and could even jump fairly well.”
You have to attain a certain level of skill at any task before it becomes fun, whether it be playing guitar, figure skating, or baking cookies.
Generally speaking, it is easier to learn how to manage two edges on the snow than it is to learn how to manage four — at least in the beginning. So, it is probably easier for most people to go from zero to fun on a snowboard than on skis.
This should hardly be considered a shortcoming, though.
And, once you start looking at advanced technical maneuvers, the learning curve is pretty much equally steep for both skiers and snowboarders. When it comes to hucking backflips and charging 40 degree chutes, it simply comes down to the ability of the individual, not the plank strapped to their feet.
Bullshit Stereotype #6: Snowboarding is Loud
Many skiers claim that snowboarders make a horrible scraping noise when riding downhill or coming to a stop.
I’m no physicist, but I doubt that. A snowboard, because it’s broader, makes a low-pitched sound when it vibrates. Low sounds carry farther.
Skis, on the other hand, make a high-pitched sound when they scrape over ice. This sound is in all likelihood equally loud. It just doesn’t carry as far.
The sound of snowboards on ice may carry farther, but, in my opinion, the sound of skis on ice is more unpleasant.
Can We Be Friends?
Most skiers are totally cool with snowboarders.
However, some skiers make accusations about snowboarders that are are downright ignorant.
I have met you. You assumed the worst of me before we even got on the chairlift. You roll your eyes because of all the time you expect to waste, waiting for me to strap in. You preach about how we can’t traverse to all the places that you can, and how we ruin your favorite runs.
You are full of shit.
Despite that, I’d like to shake hands and call it water under the bridge.
Here’s what I propose.
You let go of your preconceptions and wait until you see me ride before you judge me.
I’ll forget about all the ignorant things you said about me.
Do we have a deal?
BEST GEAR DEALS ONLINE
I am a skier – I have tried snowboarding but don’t enjoy it (because I suck at it). With so many mixed families (skiing wives happily living with snowboarding husbands and children and vice versa), I find this elitist attitude dumb. Snowboarders aren’t the issue – it is reckless people on the hill – and by no means do snowboarders have monopoly on reckless, stupid behaviour.
I’m sure it need not be said at this point, but I completely agree.
I am 71 and find all the arguments mute, anyone who straps on one board or two is skiing, it has been such for hundreds of years and we are all enjoying the same sport, so lets all be respectful of each other on the mountain.
I agree, but you are saying snowboarding is skiing.
I’m a N.E. Pa.skier and snowboard out West when I am lucky cause its soft. All three of my adult children snowboard and excel at it. I am an instructor at a nice mountain in North East Pa. last year I seriously started to consider quitting my job, that I love, because of so many of my friends getting hit and badly hurt, and myself almost getting hit, more then once by snowboarders going to fast for their skill level. No, it is not the sport, it is the learning curve. (in my opinion) hard to get at first, then it clicks and goes smoothly. So we have people that have been on boards maybe four times and they think they are experts and its all going good and then they go to fast and then its not so good and then they hit another one of my instructor friends. Its not the sport its some of the people but I am sick of it. Yes, we have idiots on skis too, but beginner, novice snowboarders go too fast and my friends and I pay the price. I’m not talking one or two every now and then, I know we are in dangerous sports. I get it honey there are no guarantees. Five people I KNOW personally got hit by snowboarders LAST winter. zero by skiers. I’ve had my skis run over. I had a boarder go in between my student and I as I talked to her on the hill, maybe four foot away from me she was as we talked. I don’t know that many people and that’s a lot of people getting hit on a small mountain. I am sad to say I don’t wonder if its going to happen, I wonder when is it going to happen. Snow boarding is great, its smooth, its like flying, but personally I would not shed a tear if I never crossed paths with a snowboarder again. I’m sorry to say it but I’d be glad.
I’m genuinely sorry to hear that Jayne. It sounds like you are speaking purely from experience and without bias, so you have gotten me thinking.
Does the learning curve on a snowboard lend itself more to learners getting out-of-control than that of skis?
Anyone else care to comment on this? It hadn’t occurred to me.
I’m an instructor of both skiing and snowboarding. I honestly feel that the learning curve of snowboarding does lend itself to out of control riders. Its the tendency for beginners to lean to the back foot. The problem really lies in the “buddy lesson”, being taught by friend rather than a professional.
From my experience, I found a slower learning curve when learning to snowboard. On my first day skiing (age 12) with “lessons” from my aunt and uncle, I could make snowplow turns down the novice slope. When I started snowboarding and taking lessons (age 30), it took quite a while just to be able to do linking turns down a beginner slope. Because of this, I didn’t put a lot of time into snowboarding in the first few years (maybe 10 hours in 3 years). Learning to snowboard was frustrating at the beginning. Well, now I’m a terminally intermediate snowboarder and an advanced skier. I like snowboarding,but I LOVE skiing.
As far as out of control skiers/riders, it’s probably fairly equal. It depends more on skiing or riding within your abilities. Ironically, I was crashed into twice in one day by two different skiers while I was taking a snowboard lesson on an easy slope.
I am both a downhill skier and snowboarder. I started on two planks, then in University could not afford it anymore so took up telemarking/backcountry. I married a cross country ski racer so spent some wonderful years skinny skiing and having a fantastic workout. When we had three daughters they wanted to snowboard so we both took up snowboarding. My three adult daughters are good snowboarders now with hill etiquette ingrained into them and can edge most anywhere on the mountain. I have returned to downhill skiing because my now-husband is a singleminded lifetime downhill/backcountry skier. The hills are there for all to enjoy. Resorts are generally less enjoyable on a snowboard when they are hard packed and icy, especially for novice/intermediate skiers but that is generally the only place to practice. I still think boarding in powder beats downhill skiing for the experience. We ski the Canadian Rockies/Lake Louise mostly and I am now, at age 60, still astounded by the high ground taken by many older skiers, out of ignorance and fear. On a daily basis I carry some fear on the groomed runs because of the speed of downhill racers and boarders. The first rule of the skiers code of ethics is that one is able to stop at any moment, quickly, for the safety of those around. The second is that the person on the down hill/ or ahead, has the right of way. Yet both skiers and boarders come screaming down the hill, some in control, some out, most unable to stop on a dime, if necessary. As a skier I do appreciate the frustration with the inability, particularly of novice boarders, to be able to see a full 180 degrees in front of them. As a result they plan turns where they cannot see as well as skiers. I never noticed it when I was boarding but I do notice it now. However, it also frustrated me when group of young testosterone driven ski racers come barrelling down the hill as though they own it or living out their World Cup imaginary race. Neither make for good or correct Ski Hill etiquette and I propose that every person need to take a one time etiquette lesson prior to skiing on a hill as they are endangering all others on the hill. Lives are at stake with this kind of speed. I enjoy sharing the hill with boarders and skiers. I love watching the learning process and remember being there myself and it is always a reminder when I see a novice that I was once one myself. I do find generally, that older skiers are more rigid in their thinking, stick fast to the need for technical old style parallel skiing and are unable to embrace the playfulness of snowboarding. I know wonderful high level backcountry/ex-racer skiers who have now begun to strap on boards for their backcountry powder experience because of the float ability and are having a blast.
Jayne and co raise a good point about snowboarders going out of control more than skiers.
She accounts that to the learning curve. Which may be partially true, but I see it as more of an ignorance of on hill etiquette.
As an instructor as well, I see way more people in ski lessons than snowboard lessons. In those lessons, people learn not only to stay in control, but parts of the on-hill responsibility code.
Snowboarding traditionally (like skateboarding and surfing) have tended to avoid formal lessons and learn by oneself (which is what I did too). For those not coming from a ski background, they learn nothing about the responsibility code, and only the basics of control at first. I have had my share of stern talks with novices as well.
So I see the problem as being a culture that avoids formal instruction. CASI (the Canadian Instructor assoc) is trying hard to counter that stigma. If you see people like that, assume that they really don’t know any better, and tell them to get a lesson.
It might be a good idea to clip offenders passes and not let them back on the hill until they have taken a real lesson
I worked as a snowboard instructor and a coach for 10 years at 3 different mountains in northeast PA, I was a level 3 certified instructor and had a freestyle cert also. Might have even worked at the same place you did. I have witnessed every type of crash you could think off. I have seen people get run into in lessons, on open trails, in lines for hits in the park, lift lines, run offs from jumps or rails. I had my board run over I have been hit more times than I can count. I had a board broken, bindings split, whatever. Guess what, there were just as many beginner two plankers doing a split down the trail running into people as there were out of control snowboarders hitting people. If you work in pa, at least 60 percent of the people on the snow are out of town beginners. It’s the judgment of the person not the equipment. Sorry your friends got hit and all, but you’re ignorant. Pay attention and watch what happened without any bias, it’s a 50/50 split of jackasses cutting people of being dicks, and people going too fast to handle.
That’s so nice that you pretty much just said that you never care to cross paths with your own childern. From my 30 years on the hill 15 of those professionally teaching and coaching, I would say “that’s very skierly of you”
Rt
I been boarding for over 25 yes I started when every single skier put their nose in the air and without even knowing me for 2 min. That shows how the skiers are the nasty bitter people who are never happy and always bitch as they are superior. I believe it’s because they are not athletic enough to board. It’s fact that boarding is more demanding and harder to master, I skied 4 times in 25 yrs and was amazingly easy it blows my mind. I also been riding switch step inns so I’m always waiting for skiers , off the lift and snap I’m in. I ski kissing bridge in western New York for 25 yrs they started with only 2 boarding hills and now open to all. My brother and I were the first board patrol at kissing bridge in I think 1997 the people are awesome and only a few skiers left with attitudes most realize we all out having fun in the snow so let’s all rally togather we are all snow brothers ALL OF US
Snowboarding is a plot to destroy Western Civilization. It is well known that snowboarders eat babies and worship Satan.
We come from the school of thought that its all the same thing. We are all out for the same reason…to catch fresh lines, hit rails and fly off jumps. At both of our programs our skiers and snowboarders shredd together.
Matt the most annoying thing that Snoboarders do is sitting down in the Middle of the Slope. Ninety per cent of the time it is right below a slight drop so you can not see them until the Last moment. Skiers if they are waiting for somebody they stand (Upright) at the edge of a trail.
That and the grinding of snow off the trail is annoying also. In New England the nice term for Ice is Packed Powder. Grinding just exposes the glacier under the groomed area.
Joe, both skiers and snowboarder stop in the middle of the slope. Skiers stand, and snowboarders sit.
Both have been known to stop beneath knolls where those above can’t see them.
But, to say that snowboarders sit under knolls 90% of the time is exactly the kind of bullshit exaggerated stereotype that I’m talking about in this article.
It’s ridiculous to say, and it’s ridiculous to think snowboarders stop on the slope more often then skiers. Just because they sit more often than skiers (skiers sit too) does not constitute a big difference.
And to say snowboards scrape more snow of the hill is equally ridiculous.
Skiers scrape with twice as many edges as boarders. If anything one would think the opposite would be true (though I think they’re pretty much equal myself).
@Joe “Matt the most annoying thing that Snoboarders do is sitting down in the Middle of the Slope. Ninety per cent of the time it is right below a slight drop so you can not see them until the Last moment. ”
So so true. Incredibly true. Truer than true.
@Matt “But, to say that snowboarders sit under knolls 90% of the time is exactly the kind of bullshit exaggerated stereotype that I’m talking about in this article.”
Do you have a problem with getting your head stuck in the sand? If you visit any resort, anywhere on earth, like a lot of the time, there are boarders sitting on their arses across the top of the slope .. or just out of sight below the top of the slope. This is not an anomaly, it is a regular occurrence and for the most part I never see skiers doing the same thing.
I love boarding BTW and this is just something that needs to be address as part of slopeside culture.
Scooch, my head is not stuck in the sand any more than yours is stuck up your ass.
There is no conceivable reason to believe that the board strapped to a person’s feet makes them less capable of realizing that they are likely to cause an accident by stopping where people can not see them.
I never said skiers sit on the slope as much as snowboarders. Of course snowboarders sit down more. Skiers stand. Sometimes they lay on their sides.
I said they all “stop” on the slopes equally as often, which is true. Skiers stop and stand in the middle of the slope (and beneath drop offs) just as often as snowboarders.
Usually the people who do this are young and don’t understand the reason why it’s dangerous.
The only reason I was looking there was to find your point of view. But I can’t seem to get my head that far up my ass.
The reason that snowboarding is in decline is because the boarding community fails to correct these obvious facts about snowboarder behaviour.
Go, film reality, then show the difference between the boarders and skiers. That would be more objective than interviewing Alta idiots.
Scooch,
Where do you ski/ride?
Up here in BC, I can’t really think of anywhere I’ve been where snowboarders sit under knolls at the top of the run.
At the top of slopes, yes. Most sit down to do up their bindings. And most have the common sense to do it out of the way. Only a handful of places I’ve been (like some out-of-the-way aces in Japan) has it been a problem, but those people are generally novices, who need to be told to get out the way.
Never seen it so bad that I needed to complain about it on a website. Perhaps it is something local to your area? Or perhaps the unloading area is too small and novice riders need to do up their bindings in that particular spot?
It’s not that the snowboarders sit in the middle of the trail any more than skiers. Its that the shape of their board dictates that they must sit, rather than standing. So no, they don’t hide in unseen areas any more than skiers, but yes, their actions have greater consequences because they aren’t seen when sitting.
As for the snow being scraped off, I’d have to say that snowboarders do push more, especially when stopping. The average width of a ski is around 7cm, so together they are around 14cm. Am average snowboard, according to http://www.evo.com/how-to-choose-a-snowboard-size-chart-and-buying-guide.aspx, is around 25 cm. As the snowboard is much wider than the two skis combined, it logically would displace a greater amount of snow. Also, the side-sliding of snowboarders in terrain too difficult for them does not compare to skiers in too difficult terrain, because they either A) pizza wedge down the hill and displace a small amount of snow or B) make long wide turns, which are only done during part of the run, because in a long turn, a portion of the time they are facing diagonally downhill with straight skis, displacing little to no snow.
The problem is, logically, you’re full of shit. Stopping ability and snow displacement has little to do with the size of a board(s). Beginner skiers who don’t know how to properly use their edges and/or snow plow to stop take as long and displace as much as a snowboarder who doesn’t know how to carve.
Seriously, what you call ‘pizza’ is literally called ‘snow plowing’ because that’s exactly what it does.
Not sure what you rate as ‘difficult’ terrain. I consider it Black or higher. In which case snow plowing would literally plow through the moguls, and long/wide turns will run over the top of them. I see a lot of beginner skiers do this and — as an ex bump skier — I find it as aggravating as watching a beginner boarder heel plow through a nice line of bumps.
Look at the tracks of a skilled boarder (Ie one that actually knows how to carve). There will be a narrow S curve where the middle of the S will have a gap that marks the transition marking the edge transition. The gap is because the board slightly pops and is briefly air borne during the transition.
Even when doing deep/wide carves (ie loading the edge as much as possible) the edge digs deeper into the show to sustain the turn, it doesn’t scrape off the top.
Excessive scraping is the sign of both beginner skiers and beginner snowboarders. If it’s something you see a lot of, try getting away from the beginner runs.
tl;dr: Don’t judge all boarders by the ability/actions of beginners.
Next time you go notice it’s 50/50 don’t be biased and post facts not opinions because your bitter, o yea be careful slow down reD fine print on ticket. In a car it’s the person behind who’s at fault, people love to try to make opinions facts my stomach hurts from ?
“What’s the hardest part about skiing?”
“Telling your parents you are gay”
“What’s the difference between a beginner snowboarder and a snowboard instructor?”
“About 3 days”
Skiing is easier to learn in the first half day, which my be why it is still preferred over snowboarding. But snowboarding takes about a full day to get to the same level as turning.
After that though, snowboarding is much easier to progress at. Skiing has a European past, and is heavy with technique. Mastering 4 edges takes longer than 2. But the rewards are more speed and control.
Snowboarding has surfing roots, which has valued style and individual progression over technique. Plus, a bad-boy image. Terrain is approached very differently. Especially when you don’t have poles to limit you.
One common reason i keep hearing on why people switch to snowboarding is the boots. Ski boots are still uncomfortable for extended periods.
If someone is looking to try one or the other, it seems the best way of deciding is whether the individual wants to be able to move their feet individually (as in skiing), or wants the simplicity of only having a board to use, rather than 4 separate pieces of equipment.
Joe,
I’ve never seen skiers sit in blind spots or beginners snowplow fresh snow off a run in my short 35 years in the hills.
Not once, never.
You need glasses dude. Skiers, not all, most ones that have no knowledge of their surroundings because they are novices or just plain ignorant of etiquette, seem to love to stop on the lip of every single jump they see, stand there and stomp around a bit, poke a bunch of divots, call their 3yo with wedgies on over for a picture, then direct them to ski “pizza” down the landing while they stand in that nice flat area with no tracks in it and take pictures.
Truth is both sports have their fair share of idiots and superstars. But skiing has given little of nothing to snowboarding, had to fight tooth and nail to get where were it is. On the other hand snowboarding has given new life to a sport that was vastly losing numbers, technologically stalled and had adopted rules of boringness and anti-creativity. You’re welcome, now get out of my landing and shut up.
Wow guess you don’t get out much and I guess you were great from the start and didn’t have to learn to stop
I’m by no means an expert on any of this but I have noticed that more people seem to be having fun while snowboarding. Some skiers seem way too serious and uptight. To me, snowboarding seems more carefree than skiing (but that could be because when I’m skiing I feel like Bambi on ice most of the time).
Well, I can’t comment as to the personalities of everyone, but the skiers in the video at the top of the post certainly come across as uptight 😉
Hi From Scotland…
What is there to debate ?
Whether you ski or board…just get out and do it ! enjoy the mountains, the dopamine…the buzz.
Duck them ropes…turn that transciever on and go for it…
Karl ( 50 year old boarder )
You are my new ski/boarding mentor, Karl. I’m with ya!
Growing up in Germany I learned to ski as a child, but have never tried snowboarding. I would love to try it out one day though. Somehow I always think that snowboarders look way cooler than skiers. 🙂
When trying too explain the difference of challenge, fun & reward I compare skiing & snowboarding to water skiing. If they know how to slalom do they find it more fun & challenging on one ski verses two ski’s (?) This example usually turns some skeptics around to understand the thrill & reward… Snowboarding since 1985 and Level 3 PSIA/AASI Instructor since 1999.
That is a great analogy. I’m totally stealing it!
I have always thought a major reason for misunderstanding between skiers and boarders is their range of vision. When I ski, I am facing forward and my blindspot(s) are about the same as where they would be if I am driving a car. When I snowboard, I am facing towards one side or the other, and my blindspot is over my back shoulder. Therefore, the “comes out of nowhere,” “I didn’t see you there” factor is very different. That angry, “I hate those _________(skiers/snowboarders–your choice)” feeling is usually secondary to the first “I was startled and scared by you” feeling.
JMHO
You raise a good issue. Snowboarders do have a responsibility of being more aware on their backside when riding. I’ve personally rarely ever found this a problem, but it is a greater problem for us than for skiers.
On the flip side of that as a boarder is approaching a skier from behind (eyes focused fall line, blind from 2 to 10 o’clock) and the boarder is approaching with the the skier in full veiw on their toe side, seeing what is all around the skier, edging to birn speed until they can time a good point to get by the skiers fall line turning rhythm. Then all the sudden “out of nowhere, after hearing this awful scraping for half the run, it darted by me almost cutting off my turn radius and running over my ski tips” . Heard it a bunch never put 2&2 together, just knew my end (the passing boarder) and knew my actions where in full view, very calculated and got me around and clear of their path quickly and effectively without incident.
This usually happens if you randomly dead-stop in the middle of the run and/or stop on the bottom/blind side of a roller.
This is considered bad riding etiquette, the same as merging into a run without looking up hill, and riding terrain far above your ability is.
Because skis can start/stop from any terrain with little effort, I find that skiers have less awareness/regard of their surroundings. Any boarder who isn’t a complete newb will move to the top of a hilly spot or the edge of the run when they stop; partly for safety, partly because it takes some space/momentum to get going again.
The terrain I ride is far above/beyond where beginners skiers/riders go. I usually only encounter this behavior when I’m close to the base at the beginning/end of the day. Advanced/Expert skiers are generally very controlled and aware of their surroundings and therefore don’t make these mistakes. It’s not skiers vs snowboarders as much as beginner skiers vs beginner snowboarders.
As for beginner boarders… Well, some just suck. It takes a LOT of practice to gain full control of a board (Ie smooth transition carving, riding switch, riding blind, etc). Some riders take years of riding before they learn they understand the difference between scraping (ie what makes all the noise) and carving. Some develop a high degree of confidence long before they develop skill.
If you’re preferred zone is close to the base, or you’re an East Coaster on small hills, good luck.
Source: Skied for 5 years (4 in CO), 12th year snowboarding this season in CO.
at jayne seanard
I worked as a snowboard instructor and a coach for 10 years at 3 different mountains in northeast PA, I was a level 3 certified instructor and had a freestyle cert also. Might have even worked at the same place you did. I have witnessed every type of crash you could think off. I have seen people get run into in lessons, on open trails, in lines for hits in the park, lift lines, run offs from jumps or rails. I had my board run over I have been hit more times than I can count. I had a board broken, bindings split, whatever. Guess what, there were just as many beginner two plankers doing a split down the trail running into people as there were out of control snowboarders hitting people. If you work in pa, at least 60 percent of the people on the snow are out of town beginners. It’s the judgment of the person not the equipment. Sorry your friends got hit and all, but you’re ignorant. Pay attention and watch what happened without any bias, it’s a 50/50 split of jackasses cutting people of being dicks, and people going too fast to handle.